2024: CRNM Printing Delays Explained

Good info

Hey guys,

Someone knows what will happen if the protocol expires before geting CRNM?

Do I need to visiti PF before expiring?

    Hey guys,
Someone knows what will happen if the protocol expires before geting CRNM?
Do I need to visiti PF before expiring?
   

    -@koirj

Nothing will happen.  If you check the validity of your CRNM using the instructions that are included on your protocol, you'll see the actual validity of your CRNM.  The PF has access to this also, and they are well aware of the printing delays.  If you want to leave and re-enter the country you can go to the PF (no appointment needed) and they'll print out a new temporary protocol for you.

The only potential issue might be if you go to the airline counter and show them your expired CRNM.  They may or may not allow you on the flight.  However, I tend to believe if you would explain the situation and ask them to check the validity, they would allow you on the flight. 

@mikehunter

Thanks for your reply!

Yeah I actually checked the validate of CRNM with QR code!

  The PF has access to this also, and they are well aware of the printing delays.
    -@mikehunter

Just curious, wonder if the CRNM App for Android/IOS that @mikehunter you've mentioned in the forum before is of any help in this case? Can you add your ID to the app with protocolo or do you need the card itself first?

      The PF has access to this also, and they are well aware of the printing delays.    -@mikehunter

Just curious, wonder if the CRNM App for Android/IOS that @mikehunter you've mentioned in the forum before is of any help in this case? Can you add your ID to the app with protocolo or do you need the card itself first?
   

    -@rocade

I tried using the app with the QR code on my protocol, but it did not recognize it as a valid CRNM code in the app

@californiainbrazil

Oh, if they had sorted this out in the app, these printing delays would actually be the case where it could come in really useful and timesaving.

      The PF has access to this also, and they are well aware of the printing delays.    -@mikehunterJust curious, wonder if the CRNM App for Android/IOS that @mikehunter you've mentioned in the forum before is of any help in this case? Can you add your ID to the app with protocolo or do you need the card itself first?         -@rocade

No, the QR Code on the protocol and what is required on the app are different codes.  The app uses the QR Code on the actual CRNM card, in other words, you need to have the actual CRNM card to use the app.

Hello,

Someone has any updates?

I saw the guy who applied in Dec 2023 doesn't receive CRNM yet in other site.

I met with PF in January and my status still says:

O requerimento está sendo processado. The application is being processed.

So it looks like it has not even been sent to the CRNM printer, so no progress on my end.

@californiainbrazil

Thanks for reporting.

My situation is the same as yours.

I visited PF on 30th of January and the application is processed.

I've been checking for any status changes.  If I notice anything, I will post here.  I'm thinking maybe May, 2024 at the earliest.  Hope I'm wrong.

Hey guys, got any update on the printing of the CRNM?

@Mischa1864 Still crickets.... I'm guessing the earliest will be June... and that is if we're lucky.

@mikehunter

I would like to ask a question about this once more.

This means if I don't go out of Brazil, I don't need to visit PF to get my new protocol right?

    @mikehunterI would like to ask a question about this once more.This means if I don't go out of Brazil, I don't need to visit PF to get my new protocol right?        -@koirj

Not only that, but I don't believe you need to if you do leave the country.  All the PF has to do (or anyone for that matter) is to scan the

QR Code on your protocol.  It should give the actual expiration date of your CRNM.  As I mentioned earlier, mine says "Inderminado".

When your card is ready (and that will hopefully be soon, I've been waiting 5 months now) is for you or your designated person with

Power of Attorney go to the PF with the expired form.

One additional thought, when you check on your card using the QR code, print it out and keep it with your expired protocol.  That is what I do.

@mikehunter

Thanks for your answer. I basically agree with your opinion.

Regarding to QR code, I could check too. But where does it say "Inderminado" in your case?

Mine says Valido ate: 2033 so the validity period is 9 years and it should be "Inderminado" too if I'm correct.

But I don't see "Inderminado" anywhere.

In Classificacao, RESIDENTE in my case.

@koirj The maximum amount of time for a CRNM is 9 years unless your are age 65 or older at the time of the renewal.  I also

specifically requested the expiration date of Interminado on my application.  I'm not sure if that is required or not.

I was 64 when my first CRNM was approved and that was for a period of 2 years.

04/15/24 Today's Folha de S. Paulo is reporting that the PF's current funding will be cut R$122 million to fit the revised fiscal framework for 2024. The PF says that they weren't informed in advance, and the areas they named first for possible cuts are "migratory control, maintenance of the passport system,  and control and registration of foreigners."

    @koirj The maximum amount of time for a CRNM is 9 years unless your are age 65 or older at the time of the renewal.  I alsospecifically requested the expiration date of Interminado on my application.  I'm not sure if that is required or not.I was 64 when my first CRNM was approved and that was for a period of 2 years.        -@mikehunter

Is it 65 or older at the time of renewal, or 65 or older at the time of the subsequent renewal? The old CIE was the latter. Mine has been "indeterminado" since I renewed it at age 57 in 2010 because I would have been 66 at the time of the subsequent renewal in nine years.

@mikehunter

Oh I see. I'm still 20s so maybe it's a slightly different.

Thank you for telling me about it.

    04/15/24 Today's Folha de S. Paulo is reporting that the PF's current funding will be cut R$122 million to fit the revised fiscal framework for 2024. The PF says that they weren't informed in advance, and the areas they named first for possible cuts are "migratory control, maintenance of the passport system,  and control and registration of foreigners."
   

    -@abthree

(◔_◔) Figures...

04/15/24   @mikehunter
Oh I see. I'm still 20s so maybe it's a slightly different.
Thank you for telling me about it.
   

    -@koirj

As I recall, you're a Digital Nomad, right?  The validity of your CRNM will probably be synchronized with your visa, so that they always expire together.

        04/15/24 Today's Folha de S. Paulo is reporting that the PF's current funding will be cut R$122 million to fit the revised fiscal framework for 2024. The PF says that they weren't informed in advance, and the areas they named first for possible cuts are "migratory control, maintenance of the passport system,  and control and registration of foreigners."         -@abthree

(◔_◔) Figures...
   

    -@mikehunter

Yeah, terrible luck, and with no warning, of course. 

For international flights, we always get to the airport at least two hours before flight time anyway, because Brazil.  Guess I'll start adding an extra half hour.

This link gives status of your CRNM card.

Mine says still processing (after 85 days).

If it's not ready and I want to leave Brazil I'll be sure to get a newer Protocolo. Thanks

https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/sismigra-in … mento.seam

@abthree

Yes I had DNV before but I applied for the "Autorização de Residência por Reunião Familiar".

So the validaty is 9 years for this.

04/15/24    @abthree
Yes I had DNV before but I applied for the "Autorização de Residência por Reunião Familiar".
So the validaty is 9 years for this.
   

    -@koirj

Congrats!  Yes, you'll have a longer validity period for that.

@mikehunter

Apparently not every CRNM is equal...!

It depends on each individual case, and the visa that is being applied for. Some are renewed for 9 years, but others are being made indefinite. Mine was made indefinite, for example, at first renewal after 5 years.

Golden Visas at the moment are being granted initially for 4 years, then made indefinite, but it may also be possible that they are only renewed for 9 years. Only time will tell, and then a decision will be made on a case by case basis.

Might even depend on how the inspecting officer is feeling that day?!

@Peter Itamaraca Yes, I was referring to the retiree residency.

    @Peter Itamaraca Yes, I was referring to the retiree residency.
   

    -@mikehunter

OK thanks for that clarification.

We all know that the Digital Nomad visa is granted for 1 year, and renewable for another year after that. Then I think the weakest visa (one that may require renewal earlier) may be the Family Renewal one (as we all know how marriages can fail, and then the justification for the visa ceases). Or perhaps ones based on work sponsorship (as jobs also cease to exist frequently)?

So I can understand that these need more frequent justification, but not granting indefinite for the retiree one is a bit baffling!

Perhaps Investment and Golden visas may be more likely to be granted indefinitely after the first renewal as large sums of money are involved, and it has to be proven (on grant and renewable) that the investment continues.

But I was advised that there is no guarantee with any visas, since they are a privilege not a right, and the weaker the application may appear to the inspecting officer the less renewal period may be granted before justification is asked for again...

@Peter Itamaraca I saw where the Golden Visa allowed you to apply for citizenship after 4 years, subject to the conditions still being met, but couldn't find where it discussed residency renewal.  I was under the impression under the new law that the maximum for all crnm renewals was 9 years, unless you met the age requirements for indeterminada, but I of course could be wrong.  I haven't read through all the laws, and when I have been doing research, Iimited it to only what affected me, which was the retirement justification.  I'm only there for the residency and don't have any desire or need for citizenship.

@mikehunter

Unfortunately there is no automatic or direct route to citizenship through the GV after 4 years - the applicant must make the usual application, pass the language test, etc.

It is possible that it could be renewed for any period of time after the initial 4 years, although typically it is indefinite, but it could be 9 years, or even less as I mentioned previously.

04/16/24 We all know that the Digital Nomad visa is granted for 1 year, and renewable for another year after that. Then I think the weakest visa (one that may require renewal earlier) may be the Family Renewal one (as we all know how marriages can fail, and then the justification for the visa ceases). Or perhaps ones based on work sponsorship (as jobs also cease to exist frequently)? So I can understand that these need more frequent justification, but not granting indefinite for the retiree one is a bit baffling!     -@Peter Itamaraca

Under the pre-2017 law, which dated back with occasional modifications at least to the beginning of the dictatorship in 1964, Brazil had one of the few truly permanent visas in the world, the VIPER ("Visto Permanente", not surprisingly 😄).  It was granted for Family Unification and Retirement.  In principle, applications were reviewed by the Ministry of Justice in Brasília before the visas were granted by the Consulates, but in fact the process was too fast for there to be much review, and the Polícia Federal did NOT like them.  As it happens, I got one of the last VIPERs:  I requested my RNE on November 7, 2017, and the current law went into effect on November 27.  The officer wanted to make me go through the new procedures, and when his boss told him that he had process me according to the more permissive old rules he was NOT a happy camper.

Old VIPERS were grandfathered under the current law (a friend of mine has been living on hers for almost fifty years now; hers was Family Unification, but a few of the old Retirement ones are probably still kicking around) but no new ones were granted, and the Retirement Visa disappeared completely for new applicants.  I'm not sure why that upset me so much, but it did.  When they introduced the current one about two years later, it was and is MUCH less generous.

The VITEM XI that replaced the VIPER for Family Unification is pretty good, but you're right:  the authorities apparently wanted to get a better handle on marriages of convenience, and while the visa functions like a VIPER if the couple stays together, the government gave itself the right to send the foreign partner back home if the relationship doesn't last.

I'd probably call the VITEM VIII, Volunteer Services, the weakest:  I don't see any way that that one has a path to either citizenship or permanent residence.  VITEM IV (Study) and VITEM V (Work) are similar.  I've known of cases where people have gotten permanent residency after the pre-2017 Work Visa, but I haven't heard any from the current one.

It will be interesting to see whether there's a path to permanence from the Digital Nomad visa or the current Retirement Visa.  I'm guessing "no" for DN and "yes" for Retirement, but it's still early days.

Im returning to Brazil next week and was considering skipping having to show up at PF just to renew my expiring Protocolo next week. I figured I'd only go to PF if I wanted to leave Brazil without having my CRNM ready....today my lawyer sent this warning message regarding the Protocolo process...

Good morning Gerard,

Besides serving as evidence of your legal departure and re-entry into Brazil, the RNM protocol is your official identification document while your RNM card is not yet issued. Therefore, if you are in Brazil with an expired identification, it may cause issues. Additionally, immigration authorities are very strict about complying with residence permit deadlines. Failure to meet these deadlines could result in the denial of future renewals or change to indefinite validity of your residence permit. It is highly recommended that you do not miss any deadlines in your residency process.

Well, if you're making a special trip to Brazil, going to the PF (at least in Sao Paulo) for a renewal is very fast.  You don't have to wait in the lines.  Just show your document and they'll direct you to the place you would pickup your CRNM.  They'll then just print out another temporary protocol.  If in Sao Paulo, just go in the afternoon, it's not busy, all the other appointments are in the morning.

Regarding "Additionally, immigration authorities are very strict about complying with residence permit deadlines." What deadline?  The PF is the one that is late, not you.  You're waiting for them to print your card and make it available to pickup.  As far as identification is concerned, I can't imagine you having any issue.

Maybe @abthree can comment.  If I understand your situation correctly, it appears your lawyer is being ridiculous, and maybe just wanting more consultation fees.

But again, if you're going to Brazil anyway, it's easy to get a new sheet of paper.  Been there, done that.

04/16/24 Maybe @abthree can comment.  If I understand your situation correctly, it appears your lawyer is being ridiculous, and maybe just wanting more consultation fees.

But again, if you're going to Brazil anyway, it's easy to get a new sheet of paper.  Been there, done that.
   

    -@mikehunter

I don't think you should be overly alarmed:  your lawyer is probably just fulfilling his fiduciary duty of advising you of worst cases, and papering his file to show that he did so.  Still, even when the delay is their responsibility, I think that it's always good to remind the PF know that you're still around and trying to satisfy all the requirements.  Like @mikehunter, I'd drop by there and ask about renewing the doc.

Not sure if anyone has seen this here but it looks like they closed the deal.

https://www.in.gov.br/web/dou/-/extrato … -554391969

My Portuguese isn't that great though. Especially when it comes to legal items lol

@doctorscoop

My portuguese is also not good so I can not understand well but it seems yes.

I really hope that I could get CRNM soon and thanks for sharing this info!